Ask the professional: Pausing | Superb If

00:00:00: Introduction

00:01:36: Introducing Rob

00:02:02: Obstacles to pausing

00:02:52: Plastic pausing

00:05:18: Affect of a reluctance to pause

00:09:17: Busy is the brand new lazy

00:11:26: Rob’s experiences of pausing

00:13:56: Pausing between work and residential

00:17:17: The scanner train

00:23:12: Rob’s pausing recommendation

00:25:51: Remaining ideas

Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah and that is the Squiggly Careers podcast.  Immediately is certainly one of our Ask the Professional episodes and you are going to hear me in dialog with Robert Poynton, who’s the creator of a e-book referred to as Do Pause. 

Collectively, we will be speaking about how punctuating your days with very brief pauses, and considering actually virtually about what it means to create some area, can really improve our efficiency and enhance our impression and our sustainability.  In our Squiggly Careers, the place we all know we will be working for longer and we wish to hold going and continue to grow, I believe pausing is a very vital a part of that.  It is really one thing I actually care about, and care about having the ability to do it in a method that works for everybody, whether or not you are somebody who has to commute lots, whether or not you are somebody who’s working at residence, how can we ensure that we create a method of working meaning it really works for you and works on your work as effectively? So, Robert is good, he is actually insightful, filled with helpful concepts.  

He is positively practised what he is preached, in addition to sharing his phrases of knowledge with us as effectively.  So, I hope you benefit from the dialog and I hope it prompts you to consider perhaps how pausing may work in your day.  And perhaps it is one thing you even wish to take into consideration as we head into 2025 and we begin to set some studying objectives for subsequent 12 months.  So, I will be again on the finish to say bye, however for now I hope you benefit from the dialog. Rob, welcome to the Squiggly Careers podcast.  I am actually trying ahead to our dialog collectively as we speak.

Robert Poynton: Me too, Sarah.  Thanks very a lot for having me.

Sarah Ellis: So we’re speaking about pausing as we speak, and I needed to start out with what will get in the best way.  Out of your work with individuals and from sharing your e-book with individuals all the world over, we had been speaking about how really it has been translated into totally different international locations, into totally different cultures, what stops us from pausing mostly, do you observe?

Robert Poynton: Nicely the straightforward reply to that’s the type of on a regular basis insistence of day by day life, and a budget reply, when you like, is expertise.  However really, I believe these are signs.  I believe the deeper trigger that stops us can be a type of perception system, a perception that extra is at all times extra; a perception that to get on, you must go additional quicker; a perception that stopping is one way or the other harmful or precarious.  So, I believe it is that type of nest of beliefs that are strengthened and which do emerge from a type of fashionable technological society that basically make it tough for us to pause.  And what’s fascinating about that’s, it’s a perception system so it is one thing you may change or shift or query, a mindset when you favor.  In the event you simply type of take the previous saying, “Extra haste, much less velocity”, that may remind you that that is an previous concept, that individuals have at all times identified the worth of stopping.

Sarah Ellis: One of many issues that basically struck me as I used to be studying your work is you described the pause as a ‘plastic idea’, this concept of it is fairly elastic and pauses can feel and appear very totally different.  I typically assume once we are imagining pausing, we predict it must be a very radical rethink or redo of how we’re working, whereas I felt such as you had been encouraging us to discover pausing in a lot of other ways.  Maybe you could possibly deliver that to life for us just a little bit, so while you had been desirous about this plastic facet of pausing, what may that imply?

Robert Poynton: There are a lot of other ways you may pause, many alternative durations of pause.  So, a pause could be time to take a breath earlier than you enter a room or choose up a telephone.  And that may act as a reset, act as a type of clearing, even a brief area of time.  It could possibly be the alternative excessive, it could possibly be a 12 months off, like Stefan Sagmeister, the designer, who closes his enterprise down for a complete 12 months, not simply to take a break or have a relaxation however to hunt new sources of inspiration, which for anyone extremely artistic is essential. 

So in his case, he’ll journey, he’ll go totally different locations, he’ll make himself topic to different type of stimuli; and every little thing in between.  So, every little thing between a second on a threshold and a complete 12 months’s sabbatical.  And so, that affords us the prospect to consider how do any of us individually, for what we’d like, wish to punctuate our time?  Will we wish to cease for only a breath?  Will we wish to have a screen-free Saturday?  Will we wish to not do emails after 8.00 at night time? 

There’s any variety of variations that you would be able to discover. I believe additionally to consider this not as a method, it is not even that you’ve a person method, it’s extremely a lot proper right here, proper now, in the midst of no matter you are in, what can be a helpful solution to simply break it up in type of fascinating ways in which over time?  So, you may, I do not know, screen-free Saturday could be a follow you undertake, and that may then put on skinny or put on out, it won’t be just right for you anymore, you may want one thing else.  So actually, it is an invite to consistently type of reassess your relationship with time and to assume that point just isn’t a treadmill, we’re not machines, it is not about extra, extra, extra and never each unit of time is price the identical.  So, just a little pause, you may assume, “What is the level of doing two minutes?”  Nicely, you would be stunned.  So, do not underestimate how brief a time, within the type of a pause, will be extremely helpful and highly effective.

Sarah Ellis: And one of many issues that caught out to me is that typically I believe we’re reluctant to pause as a result of we predict it is going to make us much less productive.  We nearly do not give ourselves permission to pause as a result of we’re like, “Nicely, I have to hold going”.  And you employ this beautiful phrase the place you stated, “Pausing does not sluggish us down, it might probably really make issues move quicker”, and I actually favored this concept of flowing quicker, as a result of I believe you gave an instance in a e-book the place you talked about when you pause a machine, it does utterly cease; whereas really, if we pause, we’re not stopping, we’re really simply switching our consideration and our focus to one thing totally different, a pause for thought, a pause to ask a special type of query, a pause to simply stroll for 3 minutes to stroll and assume.

So, when individuals are desirous about, “Why ought to I care?  What is the payoff for pausing?” have you ever observed that when individuals begin to do that, they really see the type of impression by way of how they really feel at work, but additionally the outcomes of the standard of their work maybe?

Robert Poynton: Yeah, I imply I believe that is completely, crushingly apparent when you have a look at the world round you.  The absence of pause is sort of actually killing individuals.  It is what results in burnout, the concept we should always push on, do extra, by no means let up, be at all times on.  That’s each inhuman and unimaginable and it’ll degrade the standard of what you are doing. 

While you’re drained, you do not assume as clearly when you’re doing a considering job.  In the event you’re doing a bodily job of labor, while you’re drained you get clumsy, you make errors.  So, I believe it is evident that within the absence, and the emotional- and physical- and stress-related value of that by no means pausing is big. The opposite factor that is actually vital right here is there is a purpose why in medication in subject hospitals within the nineteenth century, they invented triage.  So triage, for those who aren’t aware of that time period, is a French phrase, and it signifies that triage is what you do when injured troopers are coming right into a subject hospital and also you spend a while not treating them.  You spend a while along with your restricted sources checking who wants therapy most urgently.  And when you try this, individuals will endure, perhaps even within the case of the sector hospital, die.  However total, as soon as you have taken an evaluation of who to deal with first, it is far more efficient.  Within the language you are utilizing, far more productive. 

So, when you’re busy, busy doing, doing, doing, how are you aware that what you are doing, when you by no means cease to query it, is price doing, or is the perfect factor to do, or that the circumstances have not modified?  In the event you by no means search for, you could be going the unsuitable method. So, the price of not pausing is legion, and as we had been saying earlier than, the advantage of pausing is, it does not imply stopping altogether, it simply means creating just a little parenthesis, just a little interregnum, a second of reflection or area the place different stimuli, different questions, different instructions, different concepts can happen to you. Or, you may join with different individuals who may provide these concepts or questions.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, as a result of one of many phrases that you just discuss within the e-book is that this type of, all of us say we’re busy, we count on individuals to reply to the way you’re doing with busy, and also you type of provoke us to think about whether or not really that is doubtlessly a bit lazy.  And truly, I do agree, as a result of I believe if we’re simply at all times busy doing the identical issues in the identical method, you are very a lot sticking with the established order, and that’s hardly ever what we’d like.

Robert Poynton: In the event you take the analogy of media, not all media, you already know, social media however broadcast media as effectively, you may by no means devour all of it, you may by no means learn every little thing, you may by no means do something.  And the identical is true with all of the duties we may do for ourselves or we may consider.  It is a lot, a lot faster to write down a listing or purchase a e-book than it’s to really do the factor on the record or to learn the e-book.  And so, we’re deluged, we might be overwhelmed if we actually tried to do every little thing.  So, when you do not pause to think about what your priorities are, you are still setting priorities as a result of you may’t do every little thing, you are simply not doing it very thoughtfully.  

You are being deluged by these things and doing what’s most at hand. The phrase I am utilizing is, “Busy is the brand new lazy”.  And what I imply by that isn’t that you just’re not making effort however, “Busy is the brand new lazy”, means it is lazy considering.  You are not consciously selecting to evaluate what wants doing most, what wants doing first, what perhaps does not want doing otherwise you’re doing for simply behavior or inertia that does not really want doing any extra, what you could possibly let go of.  , you may’t do all of it.  So, a way or one other, you have acquired to choose.

Sarah Ellis: And I believe it was the World Well being Organisation the place you reference this within the e-book, round this concept of velocity bumps, which I favored, as a result of I believe typically bodily objects remind us to behave in a sure method.  One of many inspirations I took from the e-book was, what velocity bumps may I add into my day in a ritual-rhythm-type method, that simply type of compelled me to decelerate.  As a result of I suppose I believe, “Oh, a velocity bump forces you to decelerate”, you type of don’t have any selection except you wish to wreck your automobile. 

And so, really I used to be asking a gaggle that the opposite day.  I used to be like, “What would a velocity bump appear like that will drive you to simply go, ‘I’m simply going to pause to do one thing totally different, or a minimum of change my tempo a bit’?”  And other people had been speaking about small issues like, “I can not bear in mind the final time I did not eat my lunch at my desk”.  So, they had been like, “Possibly simply taking a lunch break”. Or I stated, “I am an enormous fan of strolling”.  So, I just about go for a stroll each single day.  And I try this, to be trustworthy, much less for bodily rewards, extra for psychological rewards. 

And so I stated to them, “When was the final time any of you went for a stroll throughout your work day?”  And it was, “By no means”, nobody had ever accomplished it for the reason that pandemic.  Within the pandemic, that they had, as a result of I believe it was that forcing perform of, “I’ve acquired one likelihood to”.  However for the reason that finish of the pandemic, they hadn’t.  And I used to be like, “Oh, that is so fascinating”. 

And I believe it is actually because, as you described, we type of neglect that now we have these selections out there to us that you must resolve, you type of should take possession for these velocity bumps, or nonetheless you wish to take into consideration these pauses, as a result of no one’s going to drive you to do that, I do not assume, whether or not you are in an enormous firm or whether or not you are like each of us, working for yourselves, you must resolve pausing is vital sufficient to make it a precedence. I simply questioned out of your perspective, having written the e-book and type of dived into it, what does this appear like for you?  Have been you already doing this brilliantly and that is why you wrote the e-book?  Or, have you ever accomplished some new issues on account of contemplating all of the totally different sensible methods you may make this occur?

Robert Poynton: I used to be doing a variety of it already.  I’ve lived most of my life in Spain really, and in order that tradition in rural Spain as effectively is far more attuned to that.  So, my spouse at all times teases me about how completely unjustified it’s for anyone that wasn’t born in Spain to be so utterly dedicated to having a siesta after lunch day-after-day, which I’ll do religiously.  After I’m working on the Saïd Enterprise College right here in Oxford, I’ll even discover a quiet nook to have only a 5-minute nap in a 40-minute lunch break. 

So, it is that vital to me.  So, that is at all times there.  I’ve acquired a 25 12 months previous meditation follow, which is of course an interregnum or a pause of some type, and I am surrounded by individuals who, to illustrate, transfer at a special rhythm and provides a special significance to issues. So, in rural Spain while you meet with anyone, you are going to have a dialog.  The dialog just isn’t going to be about something new, you are unlikely to study something, you are in all probability going to say the identical belongings you stated final week.  However there is a type of recognition that that second of social interplay is price one thing in its personal proper, as you cease and see the opposite individual and are seen by them.  So, for me, there was a variety of that already built-in, which I believe was what sort of alerted me to the worth of it.  I believe although that there are there are new issues.  I imply, some actually mundane issues, how do you create velocity bumps?  Nicely, I work from home, and I put the printer in a spot which isn’t handy, it is not proper subsequent to me.  I do not print that many paperwork, it is true, however what it means is there’s an interregnum to go to the printer.  So, in a method, I am type of forcing myself to take a tiny miniature stroll.

 And in that little area, there is a new type of pause.  Thresholds of any type are very fascinating and helpful, so simply earlier than you begin the automobile, simply earlier than you come residence, as you undergo the door when you’ve been out. What’s fascinating right here is the drive of behavior is a part of what you are referring to.  Habits are nice as a result of they assist you in issues and scale back your cognitive load so you do not have to consider them.  However on the identical time, once in a while, to query or interrupt these recurring patterns of behaviour and because it had been, to type a brand new behavior of interruption or of the velocity bump, can really provide help to.  So, if each time you seize your automobile keys, you simply take a breath, then that can begin to develop into built-in in a optimistic method.  So, you type of wish to each interrupt habits, but additionally use habits to your benefit.

Sarah Ellis: You referenced, you may should remind me of his title, I believe he was a CEO who listened to some jazz on the finish of his day within the workplace, is that proper?.

Robert Poynton: That is proper, that was Tom Hockaday right here in Oxford.  So, he ran the college’s expertise switch enterprise for about ten years, Isis Innovation it is referred to as, and he would play the Dave Brubeck monitor.  He would shut his workplace door, so truthful sufficient, he had an workplace, he was the boss, he may try this.  Not all people has that, however you could possibly do it in headphones.  And he’d shut the workplace door and he’d play Take 5 and he would take, because it occurs, the actual model he listened to is 5 minutes and eight seconds lengthy, so it is nearly excellent.  And after I requested him about that, he did not say he did it for any explicit purpose.  He did it to introduce that area, an area between the workplace and residential, in order that he did not, as he stated, deliver work residence with him, type of carry it unconsciously with him.  And typically, an concept about one thing he needed to do the following day would happen to him in that little area, one thing he’d forgotten.  Generally he would simply daydream, typically he would take into consideration how he was going residence and who he was going residence to and the way a lot that mattered to him. So, it wasn’t that it was one other job, it was an empty area which based on the day, based on the second he would fill, however grew to become a productive behavior.  I think about after some time, he acquired bored of Dave Brubeck, and possibly modified the monitor.  However anyway, you already know it, a music is an efficient size of time, lengthy sufficient however not too lengthy that you are able to do that.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I believe the explanation it made me take into account a few of my pauses is I usually work from home, in all probability a minimum of 50% of the time, and so me within the night, then seeing my 7-year-old, appears like strolling downstairs.  I believe while you naturally have a commute or a stroll, it typically creates that second of pause and also you do doubtlessly pause, not at all times, you typically rush within the door, however when you can take a deep breath after which be prepared for the 7-year-old.  Whereas I typically assume, the place I’d profit from pausing is definitely in that second the place I then assume, as a result of my work has a variety of selection, “I’m accomplished working now and I’m now right here for my 7-year-old”. 

Once more, one thing would assist me I believe earlier than I walked down these stairs!

Robert Poynton: Yeah, I imply I believe that is proper.  Publish-pandemic and with extra individuals working at residence, that interregnum, that type of parenthetical area of the journey to work, no matter medium of transport you used, type of evaporated for many individuals.  And certainly one of my favorite tales about that may be a buddy of mine who’d modified jobs simply earlier than the pandemic, and he at all times used to cycle to work.  And so what he did is he went to his biking machine, which was within the backyard, I can not bear in mind what they’re referred to as, however these stationary bikes, after which in his thoughts, do the journey to work.  After which sooner or later, as a result of he’d simply modified jobs, in his thoughts he went the unsuitable method.  And so what he did, which was actually humorous, is he did not type of go, “By no means thoughts, I will simply arrive”.  He then needed to cycle again in his thoughts to the place he’d gone unsuitable, after which cycle to the brand new workplace, after which he arrived with this jokey story about, “I am sorry I am late, I went the unsuitable solution to work”. So, a really foolish concept, however simply the notion of even when it is only a second or a single music monitor, or a cup of espresso or cup of tea the place you do not take into consideration something, you do not have a pen in your hand, you do not have your telephone in your hand, you simply look out the window, how may you create a home transition in order that strolling down the steps, perhaps you stroll down the steps actually slowly, like actually slowly, one step at a time, a type of strolling meditation.  However none of that occurs except you give it significance and recognise its worth.  That is the vital factor.

Sarah Ellis: And one of many workout routines that I did instantly type of dwell as I used to be studying it, my favorite books are at all times books that find yourself with a lot of notes in and I am afraid your e-book has been scrawled throughout, so it does not look very pristine any extra, was you describe it because the ‘scanner train’.  And so, we are actually going to aim to speak about an train that I believe is sort of visible, in an audio method for our listeners to type of deliver this to life.  And so, the best way the scanner train works, or definitely the best way that I interpreted it, having learn it, and you may inform me when you assume that is proper and the way you’d construct on this, is that you would be able to mirror again on any time frame.  So, you may begin with yesterday, you may have a look at final week, however you could possibly additionally zoom out and take into consideration within the final 12 months, and also you’re nearly visually attempting to have a look at the tempo by way of the way you spend your time, how a lot area do you’ve and the way a lot velocity do you’ve, and what does that appear like.  And I believe you employ circles for area and features for velocity. Truly instinctively and intuitively, immediately, that made sense to me.  I may look again over my yesterday and I knew straightaway what felt like velocity and what felt like area.  And to your level, area did not imply I used to be staring into area, but it surely did imply I would chosen to make myself a pleasant espresso relatively than an on the spot one, as a result of that was going to take 5 minutes longer.  It did imply selecting to perhaps decelerate in a dialog with anyone.

 Moderately than, “Oh, I’ve acquired a listing of 5 issues we have to discuss”, really asking anyone how their vacation was.  For me, that represented extra space than velocity.  And I do know a couple of individuals have began to have a go and I do not assume all people discovered it fairly as instinctive as I did, and so I simply questioned whether or not you could possibly describe it a bit extra for individuals, as a result of everybody was so eager to have a go at this.  And I used to be considering, effectively for me, it clicked instantly, however I believe some individuals discover it arduous to work out, “How do I categorise velocity versus area?”  So, yeah, maybe we may discuss it a bit extra, as a result of I find it irresistible as an train.

Robert Poynton: Certain, and credit score the place it is due, the unique concept for this notation got here from Adam Morgan, my buddy Adam Morgan at Eat Large Fish.

Sarah Ellis: Oh, we love Adam, he is been on the podcast.

Robert Poynton: I’ve repurposed it for a totally totally different utility, however this concept of this distinction between velocity and area got here out of some work we did collectively.  So, yeah, I believe the bottom line is to not give it some thought.  I believe that individuals wrestle once they attempt to have interaction their rational thoughts and their final analytical thoughts, and the final word drawback there may be…

Sarah Ellis: Possibly that is why I at all times discovered it straightforward! Robert Poynton: Nicely maybe, maybe.  It is when individuals assume it is like filling in a calendar or a diary the place you may go, “What was I doing at 11?”  It isn’t about that.  You may draw a day, let’s take yesterday.  It isn’t like you must resolve of eight characters, which of them are ones and which of them are zeros.  You may draw 15 zeros within the morning, or circles, as a result of it felt very spacious and you did not have any calls or commitments and also you had been in a position to go for a stroll, or do no matter you felt like.  After which, you may do three brief strokes within the afternoon which symbolize a sequence of calls, one in every.  So, the factor is to not be too analytical to not assume it via. How do you resolve what to place?  It’s a must to get in contact along with your emotions, it is about the way it felt.  And velocity and area are the headlines, however 4 stops on the tube simply type of in a drowsy, early-morning state may really feel very spacious and expansive, and a morning of intense exercise may fly by.  So, you are attempting to catch your self not considering and also you’re attempting to make use of your hand to attract one thing that you would be able to then have a look at and go, “Oh, yeah, that appears like that”.  Then, the choices you’ve as soon as you have acquired some type of image is to then say, “Do I like how that’s?”  

As a result of once more, I believe the factor that journeys individuals up is that they assume there is a proper method to do that.  There actually is not.  There’s simply your solution to attempt to get a way and a really feel for a way your time is working for you and whether or not you wish to change it. So, the opposite factor, the opposite clue to really filling this in is, do it rapidly.  And when you do not like what you have accomplished, otherwise you get caught otherwise you get locked up, simply screw up the paper, throw it away, begin once more.  Do not sit there and agonise over it, simply attempt to do it in a type of quick, felt, sense method.  After which have interaction your considering thoughts while you have a look at it and go, “Do I like that?  Does that really feel good?  Is that how I would like it to be?”  In the event you get actually caught, attempt a special time frame, attempt a shorter time or a very long time, as a result of you are able to do it, as you stated originally, Sarah, for a complete 12 months; you could possibly do it for an hour.  And like most issues, when you simply attempt it a bit and practise a bit, you may discover your method there.  However on the identical time, if it is actually locking you up and also you’re actually scuffling with it, it is in all probability not for you, so don’t be concerned about it, do one thing else.

Sarah Ellis: A few my associates who talked to me about it, they’re in all probability among the smartest those who I do know.  And I wonder if they had been attempting to do it proper, as a result of they had been asking me, “What’s the best method to do that?  Would that be this or would this be this?” whereas I believe I in all probability simply felt my method, and similar to you stated, did it rapidly and really instinctively as I used to be studying.  I used to be like, “Oh, I will simply have a look at yesterday and I will simply have a look at final week”.  So, I believe there’s some good recommendation there.  I believe I discovered the zooming in and zooming out fascinating, as a result of typically you could be proud of yesterday, however then really you could be much less proud of the final three months that may then immediate some modifications.

Robert Poynton: And two different issues you could possibly do mechanically to assist that.  One can be, do it along with your non-dominant hand, so when you’re left-handed do it along with your proper hand, when you’re right-handed do it along with your left hand.  It is simply strains and circles; you may handle that.  And when you get actually caught, then enquire into the stuck-ness, so the place is it you are getting caught, what are you getting caught about?  Don’t be concerned about finishing the train, as a result of who cares, no one’s watching.  Possibly it is worth or advantage is it is going to present you the place to look, “Why am I so caught on this?” and get inquisitive about that and see what that yields.

Sarah Ellis: Nicely I beloved it, and getting a lot of individuals to attempt it out in workshops, and individuals are really actually having fun with experimenting with it.  So, two very good brains, you and Adam coming collectively.  I hadn’t realised additionally the reference to Adam, in order that’s nice, and does not shock me both.  Are there every other items of recommendation that you just wish to go away our listeners with?  So, having spent a lot of time diving into pausing and likewise practising it for your self, is there something we have not talked about as we speak the place you assume, “If there’s one different factor that I would actually like to go away the Squiggly Careers listeners with, it could be…?”

Robert Poynton: I do not know if we have touched on this already, perhaps now we have, but it surely appears to me that, “The unexamined life just isn’t price residing”, to cite Socrates, that even except you pause in a Squiggly Profession, not simply by way of the day-to-day productiveness — I spoke with somebody this morning, for instance, who talked about how when the pandemic hit and he or she acquired an opportunity to take far from her work, she realised she hated it and he or she hated her boss and he or she needed to make a change.  And she or he did and he or she has flourished enormously since. 

So, I believe that the concept pause is not nearly squeezing out extra, that mentality in a method is what leads it to be tough.  There’s something in regards to the depth and high quality of time that is out there to us to simply take, and it does not must be a lot, however to offer ourselves the credit score of taking just a little little bit of time to think about what actually issues to us, and to open up these areas in order that we are able to pursue different avenues, get a brand new perspective on ourselves, ask ourselves the larger deeper questions. So, I believe a Squiggly Profession is, by definition, going to have turning factors, whereas motion and exercise tends to maintain you entering into the identical line.  So, if you wish to make these fascinating arcs, I discover it very tough to think about how you’ll try this with out some pause.  So, there’s quite a bit at stake right here and there is quite a bit to be gained and there is various artistic alternative available, like a little bit of yeast in bread.  You do not want a lot, however with out the yeast the bread turns into heavy and lumpen and boring.  That is how I consider pauses, they’re the yeast.

Sarah Ellis: Nicely I hope this dialog has been a pause for individuals.  I do know that a lot of individuals take heed to the podcast and so they do see it as a pause of their day, perhaps as some area.  Generally individuals are out strolling with their canine or they’re simply listening whereas they’re having a espresso.  So, I really feel like we have maybe gone meta on pausing.  We’re pausing on pausing as we speak.  We have talked about pausing, hopefully whereas individuals are pausing, and perhaps we have satisfied some individuals as effectively to simply check out pausing, or perhaps give your self permission to pause in a brand new method.

Robert Poynton: Improbable.

Sarah Ellis: However thanks a lot, Rob.  I beloved the e-book, I actually loved the workout routines in it.  I believe I used to be already an advocate of the pause, however much more so now.  So, thanks a lot for sharing your concepts and your insights so generously with us as we speak.

Robert Poynton: In no way, it has been a pleasure.  Thanks.

Sarah Ellis: Hello, all people, it is Sarah once more.  I hope you loved that dialog with Rob, and it is impressed you to consider including some pauses into your day.  At all times ship us concepts when you’ve acquired individuals that you just’d love us to speak to on the podcast.  It is helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.  However that is every little thing for this week.  We’ll be again with you once more subsequent week.  Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly.  Bye for now.